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 Leaderboard

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InhumanPwnage
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PostSubject: Leaderboard   Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:07 am

Spoiler:
 

NFMM Leaderboard Thread


One of the largest, most controversial and requested features for NFMM, is the inclusion of a Leaderboard.

I for one, always hated the idea of having one, because through it, people would see for themselves who is "the best". Let's get something straight now. I do not believe there is a "best player". However, I have thought over this idea for so long, and have come around to see that it can work for both parties who want or don't want to be part of it. So much so, it may add flexibility to NFMM, as long as there is no direct way to show off through the client/online game. What I mean is, if there was a command that would send into the lobby, our Leaderboard stats. That, would just kill the game. However, I'd much prefer it if these "stats" where kept off-site on RadicalPlay's site. Just a taster so far.

So, starting from how the system works. Many of us play in different environments, something we have to accept. Some might say, that it does not change, however, they are totally wrong. NFMM, originally being based around Game Cars and Game Stages, has grown and expanded into also implementing custom-made/player-made content, and this, can be catered for!

Having our own account editable through the Edit My Account page, there could be one of the most important options which separates players from taking part, or not taking part in the Leaderboard. Here's a mock-up picture of what I mean:

Spoiler:
 

Where only those who have ticked these options, will have their scores recorded, and viewable on the Leaderboard.

Keeping in mind that this Leaderboard will be kept and updated on RP's site, a page for itself, this Leaderboard should be split into 2:
  • Official Listings:- Games made with only Game Cars, on a Game Stage!

  • Unofficial Listings:- Everything custom


Furthermore, since we can choose whether we would like to have our games be recorded into the above listings, all we have to do is select the option, and then, our client will do the rest. If we had to reset our stats, all we would have to do is untick an option, submit changes, and re-tick it again to start every stat from 0.

Now, here comes the tricky part. Surely by having such a system in place, the game may lag a bit more. That's why, this should be one of the last updates to be brought to the game, when everything has settled down. Having said that, there may/will be abuse in such a system.

That is why, this system CAN ONLY WORK IF WE CAN TELL WHETHER SOMEONE HAS INTENTIONALLY QUIT A GAME OR LOST CONNECTION TO THE GAME. If we can tell when any of these can occur, then the Leaderboard may actually work well. Another thing to note, it would only be fair if the players who are playing have different account names entirely. To recap, games will not count if:
  • A player disconnects in any way. Be it giving up, or connection issues in a 1v1. I'd even consider it in 3 player games, to be fair. Or, an IP-checker could come in handy to check if someone has been multi-logging, under a slightly different IP address.

  • The players in a game have the exact name.

  • The player is not registered, making them not have their games recorded.



With all that being said, we can move on to what will be recorded, and when. It has taken a while to get this idea to work right, and the only way we know best, is the trivial W/L ratio.

Through this W/L ratio (Win/Loss), the game may sort out a list of players, which is by default, sorted by W/L ratio score. On the side of the W/L ratio column, would be other stats affecting the score, aside from # of Wins, and # of Losses. Stats like:
  • total # of wins, total # of losses

  • # race wins, # waste wins

  • # lost to racing, # lost to getting wasted (got wasted)

  • # players a player has wasted, # stunts pulled off that gave MAX power

  • Maybe even "car used most" or "player last active"


Before I get carried away, it may be possible for say, EL KING only games to be recorded into an EL KING listing, if possible! But this is getting carried away.. and drifting a little from the main point.

The W/L ratio would be the total # of wins, divided by the # of losses. 7:4 (7 wins, 4 losses) for example would be 1.75 -- another player with 6:5 would be 1.2; 1.75 is a higher score than 1.2, thus ranking the score above the 1.2.

Now, it can never be that simple, now can it? it can't, and there's no reason why it should. That's why, I say that the # of wastes and # of stunts pulled off to get MAX power, should in some way, affect each player's score, so that say, a player can't have an absolute W/L ratio like 10:0 (dividing by 0 will never work), even 10:1. Having this in place, trying to cheat the system, or abuse it, will have drastic effects - maybe even show activity stats!

Other features these lsitings should include are:

  • On each column, we can sort the data, either descending, or ascending. Default value is being sorted by W/L ratio, descending.

  • Search function to search other players.

  • If we hover our mouse over a player's name, it shows the exact car used by the player.


Some mock-up pictures (NOT REAL):

Spoiler:
 

MORE PICTURES TO COME!

~IP
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InhumanPwnage
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PostSubject: Re: Leaderboard   Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:05 pm

Nobody thinks this idea has flaws?
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Jiggnfm
Hidden Agenda
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PostSubject: Re: Leaderboard   Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:41 am

This is a good idea! Its a good way to tell how good someone is!

Have you told Omar already about this?
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Fastcar800
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PostSubject: Re: Leaderboard   Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:47 am

Hmm. Pretty cool idea! Im Crazy! Banana CRA
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ApexNova
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PostSubject: Re: Leaderboard   Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:01 am

This would be very ambitious if such a thing was created by anyone.

A leaderboard would be a very interesting to add on NFM, but that could require a separate server (all the new information involved). Information would have to be taken in constantly. There would be much more complications involved.

Question: Would there be a points system based on how many games they played, how many they won, lost, and the rest of the stats, just to sort of simplify the stats altogether?

About the stunts..I do not know if that is actually necessary. Think of it, a person who plays NFM on a regular basis does hundreds or even thousands of stunts a day (based on active-ness).

Other than the things listed above, this is not a bad idea. I must say the post was well constructed to answer most of my questions.

-SpaceParadox-





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PostSubject: Re: Leaderboard   Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:58 am

IP I'm gonna be honest with you. In my personal opinon, I've always wanted a Leaderboard. Then I actually thought about it. I've realized the idea has a lot of flaws as well and in my opinion more then pros.


Some cons :

The majority of people like competetion whether they admit it or not, some people will always wanna be 1st regardless of how they do it.Therefore there will be a LOT more cheapness then there already is. Example : People racing in over powered custom wasters and refusing to join the game if there isnt a fix so if another OP damages them they can just keep fixing till they win. Your idea about internet issues and rage quits is decent, but I don't think there is a way to tell if someone just simply turns their internet off just so it doesn't count as a loss. About the IP checker. Some people can just ask a friend to use a noob account like burncharge and make them just keep dcing to increase wins.

ACTIVITY ACTIVITY ACTIVITY



Some people may not be that good but are very active and/or play against unskilled people in dominion so they can get a lot of wins, while someone else like IP who isn't as active on nfmm might have a lower rank.



I may have misunderstood a little but that is my opinion.




~Prayers
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Anubis
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PostSubject: Re: Leaderboard   Sat Oct 13, 2012 3:16 am

That's a perfect idea IP! I always wanted a leaderboard. It is an epic way to make NFMM more popular.

I SAY IT'S A PERFECT IDEA!

~Anubis
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Zee
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PostSubject: Re: Leaderboard   Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:58 am

Great idea, only I didn't understand some of this...

Anyway, it's a good idea, I've also, like Prayers, always wanted a NFMM Leaderboard.
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PostSubject: Re: Leaderboard   Sat Oct 13, 2012 8:42 am

It's a fairly good idea, but there are a few things to be considered:

- Stunts: Is it really practical to record every single stunt? Even if it's for full power only, those numbers would grow to ridiculous sizes in a matter of weeks, even days. If you recommended that the stunt leaderboards be reset weekly...but I'm not too hot for the idea.

- Same goes for the PW section: Those numbers would grow to ridiculous numbers as well. Also, how would the game detect wastes? For example, if I try to waste Prayers but I get killed by lag in the process, does it count as a "PW" by Prayers or a "Lost Wasting" for me?

- Similar to what Prayers asked, just how would the game discern between when people who share accounts play the same game? (Ex. 2 players named "TURBO" and "turbo" play a game; "TURBO" wastes "turbo," how would this be recorded? A win and loss for the account "Turbo"?

Once these problems are solved, I think this would be a great addition to NFM.
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Freeze Zooka
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PostSubject: Re: Leaderboard   Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:00 am

Good idea. Ty for all the n00bs suggesting this. -.- I always wanted a leaderboard in AIM.
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InhumanPwnage
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PostSubject: Re: Leaderboard   Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:02 am

Thanks everyone for replying. I'll see what I can do about answering all your queries and cons Smile


Astro7452 wrote:
A leaderboard would be a very interesting to add on NFM, but that could require a separate server (all the new information involved). Information would have to be taken in constantly. There would be much more complications involved.

Not entirely, the information would first be recorded during the game. When a game is over, and there is a winner, then the information will be added to the player's stats. However, the server that will be keeping all the stats, won't be updating every hour, it should update only once every say.. Saturday or Sunday. I still think they should apply to every server though. Having just one server allocated for the leaderboard is a bit biased because everyone around the world would want to compete for sure, and we have to cater for everyone. This is why I say, this should be implemented towards the end of the NFMM development, when maybe things are much much better!

Astro7452 wrote:
Question: Would there be a points system based on how many games they played, how many they won, lost, and the rest of the stats, just to sort of simplify the stats altogether?

The Win/Loss ratio is a type of score system, dependent on the number of total wins divided by the total number of losses. However, I preferably, would like there to be other factors involved, like the Stunts pulled off, amount of players wasted, maybe even amount of different game cars used - these scores, the higher they are, will push a player's score up, so that a player cannot abuse the system.

Astro7452 wrote:
About the stunts..I do not know if that is actually necessary. Think of it, a person who plays NFM on a regular basis does hundreds or even thousands of stunts a day (based on active-ness).

If it's a 1v1 showdown, then yes, the amount of stunts could go up to 100's, but in a single game, I've only recorded myself, about 25-40 that gave me MAX power! Like I said though, the stats will be added to player's stats at the end of a game. I am now considering adding a "Disconnections" column into the high scores. If a player plays a game (say, 7 player), and disconnects, we'll have to decide whether it halfs the stats of the player that disconnected for that game, or, it adds to the amount of losses.



@Prayers wrote:
People racing in over powered custom wasters and refusing to join the game if there isnt a fix so if another OP damages them they can just keep fixing till they win.

The Listings are split into Official/Unofficial to cater for every type of player really. The Unofficial is just for custom cars on custom stages, any other combination like custom cars, on game stages, will not count, as mentioned in the idea. In which case, do you think there should be a total number of fixes taken by a player?

Remember, this idea here is primarily for keeping track of a player's stats. The W/L ratio cannot be affected directly, it is the result of a player's stats, unlike every other stat. Even sorting s other stats, for me, would be useful, so that I see how common say, is R1 used in such games, or how often do certain people pick wasting over racing, etc..


@Prayers wrote:
Your idea about internet issues and rage quits is decent, but I don't think there is a way to tell if someone just simply turns their internet off just so it doesn't count as a loss. About the IP checker. Some people can just ask a friend to use a noob account like burncharge and make them just keep dcing to increase wins.

Well, I want this idea to be considered by Omar when NFMM is about done. By then, maybe connection and lag issues may be better than they are now. Anyway, the thing of people Disconnecting is in fact something that could be better (I admit). I'm thinking of having a separate column for # of Disconnections, or having a W/L/Dc ratio instead of a W/L ratio. Now, what a disconnection does, depends. It could either count also as a loss, or half the player's stats for the game he/she played in.

The IP checking would work because if we take say 5.5.90.91, and a friend is using the same wi-fi, but a different host; 5.5.90.87, this game would not count. For anything, it will not count. It would be the first thing the game checks, then it goes on to the Disconnection situation, if a player disconnects earlier on, the game will only count as a DC on the player's end, and a player's other stats liek stunts or wastes didn't change, then no win should be recorded, Nothing happens to the winner.

@Prayers wrote:
Some people may not be that good but are very active and/or play against unskilled people in dominion so they can get a lot of wins, while someone else like IP who isn't as active on nfmm might have a lower rank.

I'd suggest the ranks being updated either once every Saturday or Sunday. Will keep everyone wondering where who is at what rank, and how, if they so want to spend time into it. However, as for me, I'd only keep it to keep track of my performance, getting a higher score to me isn't as important as trying to keep things clean between other players, and consistent/helpful experience gained from each and every game.


Need feedback on some stuff mentioned in this post! Like a Disconnections column, or W/L/Dc column!

~IP


Last edited by InhumanPwnage on Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:16 am; edited 1 time in total
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InhumanPwnage
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PostSubject: Re: Leaderboard   Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:13 am

@Turbo wrote:
- Stunts: Is it really practical to record every single stunt? Even if it's for full power only, those numbers would grow to ridiculous sizes in a matter of weeks, even days. If you recommended that the stunt leaderboards be reset weekly...but I'm not too hot for the idea.

It's something that should affect a player's score, or W/L, so that people can in no way, abuse the system to get said ratio up quickly. If only a win is collected from a game, the player won't get anything! Even if the game went on for a short time, or a player did barely anything, or didn't speak at all...

@Turbo wrote:
- Same goes for the PW section: Those numbers would grow to ridiculous numbers as well. Also, how would the game detect wastes? For example, if I try to waste Prayers but I get killed by lag in the process, does it count as a "PW" by Prayers or a "Lost Wasting" for me?

I have to disagree. It is an important number that should be recorded, just knowing how many games a player has won by wasting doesn't mean much if we can't see how he did it. It would detect wastes if it showed up on your screen. In your example, it would be as you said. Lag is something we cannot avoid unfortunately, it's like saying that there was never no corruption in politics. We know it's there, and it's affecting everyone, whether we like it or not.

@Turbo wrote:
- Similar to what Prayers asked, just how would the game discern between when people who share accounts play the same game? (Ex. 2 players named "TURBO" and "turbo" play a game; "TURBO" wastes "turbo," how would this be recorded? A win and loss for the account "Turbo"?

It was mentioned earlier in the topic about any abuse of the system. Nobody under the same name will count. It is one of the first determining factors to decide whether a player's stats will or will not be recorded. It does this before the game actually starts. At least, that's what I'd do. Turbo or TURBO, being exactly the same name, if in the same game, will not make the game count, for the account in itself since there can only be 1 account with the letters "t" "u" "r" "b" "o" organised in the fashion of "turbo".

@Turbo wrote:
Once these problems are solved, I think this would be a great addition to NFM.

They were explained in the topic already. Very Happy You may have skipped them while reading. I don't blame you... there's a lot to write for something like this... that's why need feedback, to solidify it! Maybe then this can be presented to Omar.... when every other update has been done towards the end of NFMM being in beta!

~IP
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Freeze Zooka
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PostSubject: Re: Leaderboard   Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:42 am

I agree with Turbo. Problems fixed, this would be a great addition. But, ONE MORE THING:

- There maybe bugs/bots/hackers here to cheat. Mostly: skybullet, HOTWHEELS and many more. We need some security to block these hackers to hack this board.

- We need more people to agree. This topic is very important and users need to agree more; plus....

- UPDATES. We need to know every update by day by day.

This maybe be some dumb things I said. I regret if you don't like. >.<

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PostSubject: Re: Leaderboard   Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:17 pm

Oh ok. But even with game cars somee people would race with masheen monstaa king just for wins. I like the idea I think it would bring more excitement to the game but I'm afraid what people would do just for wins.
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Jiggnfm
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PostSubject: Re: Leaderboard   Sun Oct 14, 2012 4:23 pm

^ I think its like the ranks here at AIM.

As I said before, this is to tell how good someone is, this is not a fight for first.

And as Frikishzooka just said, you may want to install a security system to keep out hackers.

The bugs IP has to deal with them himself.
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PostSubject: Re: Leaderboard   Today at 4:26 pm

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