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 Lag Wasting

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How do you think about lag wasting?Good or Bad
good
55%
 55% [ 18 ]
bad
45%
 45% [ 15 ]
Total Votes : 33
 

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BlackBird
Ascended
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PostSubject: Re: Lag Wasting   Sat 22 Dec 2012, 3:23 pm

Or just like Mr.monster,lag waste with a OP -.-
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PostSubject: Re: Lag Wasting   Sat 05 Jan 2013, 3:20 am

There's no such thing as "abusing" lag. Lag is a lame excuse to lose a game. On your screen, you can still dodge your opponent and everything, he's just a few steps ahead of where you see him to be.

The only thing this affects is what your opponent sees. Your opponent sees his car passing right by yours, but on your screen you see his car coming... Coming... And crash, hit. You have just as much time to react as you would if lag didn't exist, so you have no excuse (unless they're teleporting or are slow-mo).

Really, the only thing lag affects is the way in which you should attack your opponent and the recoil that can be avoided through the use of lag. It doesn't affect defense at all (unless your defense is recoil-oriented).
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Seabiscuit
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PostSubject: Re: Lag Wasting   Sat 05 Jan 2013, 4:41 am

I actually have quite a few issues with lag, which is why racing is quite difficult for me.

When I race, normally near or right at the starting line, I would get a head of everyone (on my screen), but in fact someone has over took me by taking a stunt and (on the opponents screen) landing right in front of me. Lag takes affect and on my screen it looks like someone has either landed right on me, or is right behind me and back hits me which gets me the most because he's actually IN FRONT of me, so I end up spinning out to the right/left.

I tested this sort of thing out with 2 laptops, both running Windows 7 and the game runs smooth on both laptops, so the processing speed is exactly the same. Both cars were Radical Ones and instead of using LAN I used the regular Online mode. I expermimented on all 3 servers and the lag seemed pretty much the same on all of them (maybe because the laptops were next to each other and the distance to the game servers was the same). On one of the laptops I kept R1 at full speed on the ground while on the other I stunted over the other R1 and landed right infront of it, well on the other computer's screen it never showed that I landed right in front of it but landed BEHIND the car which means that the lag trail fell directly on top of the car. As the R1 moved closer to the R1 on the ground, it results in a legit back hit on the computer's screen, and no damage whatsoever on the car tha landed, in fact the car that landed didn't even know that their lag landed behind the other car so as that car accelerated, it back hit the car on the ground. Think of this as a stick sticking out the front of each car, the back of the stick is where the "ghost" or "what-you-see" car and the front of the stick being that actual location of the car. The stick's length determines the amount of lag that person has. Well when the car "lands" on you on your screen, the back of the stick actually landed on you meaning that they have "hit" you on your screen. Same thing applies when you get back-hitted, the stick or the lag lands perfectly on top of you which means that you are in a perfect lag-lock, or in other words you could only turn left or right full force to avoid it otherwise if you keep on driving, you would get "back-hit" by that car. That's how I figured it out for myself.

The other thing that I got confused is when you're racing (again), as you get closer to a checkpoint, suddenly (on your screen) you see a car slowly creeping up on the side of you, well If you think about it, they are actually WELL IN FRONT of you so if you try to side-hit him, you would spin out. But on the other person's screen, you are well behind. So no matter what the position says, when you're side by side with a car, that car would have the closer position than you.

My ending note is that people who overtake you even thought you are going at full power and they are too, just means that their connection is faster and better than yours. You see, people can't have the SAME exact connection (stated about a billion times on this topic), which is why that happens.

Again, feel free to provide constructive criticism against my hypothesis above.
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PostSubject: Re: Lag Wasting   Sat 05 Jan 2013, 4:53 am

Alright, I agree with your "stick" analogy and I think it works pretty well. Although, you're able to see when they're going to hit you and you can still avoid it as well as you could on Singleplayer.

In order to avoid getting lagged, you need to realize that they're ahead of you and that knocking them out of the way will result in you getting lagged (since they're not where they appear to be).

But no, connection speed doesn't affect the speed of a car. It's not possible unless you have such a slow connection that your NFMM freezes every so often. People can't overtake you when you're both full power with the same car unless they're gliding or in rare occasions, if your connection is just catching up to their actual location.

Racing I can imagine how this is frustrating, having someone come up from behind you and poke you in the back, sending you spinning out. Although, you still have the power to swerve to the side and prevent them from poking you (which makes lag still legit).
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PostSubject: Re: Lag Wasting   Sat 05 Jan 2013, 4:55 am

@SinfulBliss wrote:
There's no such thing as "abusing" lag. Lag is a lame excuse to lose a game. On your screen, you can still dodge your opponent and everything, he's just a few steps ahead of where you see him to be.

The only thing this affects is what your opponent sees. Your opponent sees his car passing right by yours, but on your screen you see his car coming... Coming... And crash, hit. You have just as much time to react as you would if lag didn't exist, so you have no excuse (unless they're teleporting or are slow-mo).

Really, the only thing lag affects is the way in which you should attack your opponent and the recoil that can be avoided through the use of lag. It doesn't affect defense at all (unless your defense is recoil-oriented).

Perhaps if you had to deal with what the majority of other users experience, you wouldn't have this point of view. True, lag is dodgeable, but not if the vehicle in question moves erratically, i.e. smashing through other cars on a user's screen without taking damage. The reason it's not practical to lump lag and "normal" (a.k.a. Single Player) wasting into the same category (and therefore say that dodging them is 100% the same), is because they just aren't.

Take an example: A DR Monstaa, a Radical One (R1), and a High Rider (HR) are all in a race. The R1 and the HR are racing, while the Monstaa is wasting. let's say the R1 is ahead of the HR, but then the R1 gets smashed head-on. Now, in single-player, you'd expect the Monstaa to bounce off of the R1 pretty high into the air, the R1 would take heavy damage, and the HR would take the lead.

In multiplayer, where LAG is a factor, those scenarios don't occur. The Monstaa can, using lag, smash into the R1 (without taking damage) AND keep on driving and crash into the HR as well (still without damage). No person who applies normal NFM logic can possibly predict or explain that.

I know you don't get hit as often, so this may seem a bit foreign to you; for the rest of us who take hits on a regular basis, this is common knowledge. What I'm getting at is that predicting lag is nearly impossible, especially with a fast moving car. You try to make it seem easier than it really is..but you're oversimplifying. (Obviously, this varies based on the car you play against, and who you're playing against, but I hope you get my drift.)
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PostSubject: Re: Lag Wasting   Sat 05 Jan 2013, 5:32 am

@SinfulBliss wrote:
Racing I can imagine how this is frustrating, having someone come up from behind you and poke you in the back, sending you spinning out. Although, you still have the power to swerve to the side and prevent them from poking you (which makes lag still legit).

Sometimes with cars like M8 or F7, instead of back hitting you, they go straight through you, not ghost-through. Like, what happens when you hit MASHEEN in the back with a weak car but in NFMM. You get sent back pretty far, or just suddenly stop in place while the other car keeps driving. This is one of the other most irritating ways of the use of lag.
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PostSubject: Re: Lag Wasting   Sat 05 Jan 2013, 6:41 am

Look guys, lag is a part of game. We all agree with that. If you imagine NFMM without lag, you'll see that there wouldn't be actually any skill required but dodging, that too in some miraculous manner. In the multiplayer world, where lag is a major element, you need to place your car at the right place, at the right time in order to hit your opponent. Connections vary, and so may the lag, so theres no point in complaining about someones individual connection. Even the people you describe as "teleporting and slow-mo." They too can get lagged. It's not upto your gameplay on how to lag them.

You guys start complaining if you cannot lag someone. You talk about "perfection." Let me tell you something very clearly. Pefection would be impossible if there was no lag. Your opponents gets damage and you don't. If there was no lag, his every hit would give you significant damage. So if you are so into perfecting everyone and I'm reffering to Turbo and Sinless here, then STOP complaining. No one is different. Only the connections vary by delay. And if you cannot predict your opponents delay. Theres no way you can win.

~Steam
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Phyrexian
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PostSubject: Re: Lag Wasting   Sat 05 Jan 2013, 10:06 am

Don't forget that without lag, MASHEENs and OP wasters would be nearly impossible to kill. What makes NFMM what it is is some people's ability and skill to deal with those cars, kill them in a few shots with nukes or just troll them with something like Radical One. I wonder how you'd deal with stuff like King Masheen and normal MASHEEN if there wasn't any lag... after all, without lag there would be barely any diffrence between pros and noobs... though I certainly agree lag is irritating in racing, especially when someone flies through you and gets a speed boost while you are spinning out like hell and falling to the last position... XD
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PostSubject: Re: Lag Wasting   Sat 05 Jan 2013, 2:11 pm

Turbo: I understand what you mean, however I never said NFMM and NFM2/NFM were the same. They're simply not and can't be due to lag. I said that if you just factor lag into your dodging abilities, you should have no difficulty. You can still see the DR Monstaa coming at you, therefor it is still your ultimate decision as to whether you get hit or dodge.

The fact that the Monstaa takes no recoil or knockback is due to the lag, but that doesn't affect your capability to dodge him.

Carbon: Cars with extreme acceleration and/or speed tend to do that, since Masheen hits their lag trail (and since he's so slow, he hits it multiple times, causing the massive damage you usually see).

Also, this "go-right-through" thing is when your computer to catching up to their actual location, and if you're in this line of delay you'll see their car going through yours.

Raza: Your connection is impossible to lag normally. I wouldn't mind adjusting my distance to lag you properly, but your con is so delayed that every hit always gives you 1% unless it's lucky.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean when you say we "complain" about our perfection. Why would we complain when we perfect someone...? Anyway, a perfection shows that you played a near perfect match (at least, your opponent didn't catch any mistakes you made) and that you played to your utmost ability and couldn't possibly have played any better against them.
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PostSubject: Re: Lag Wasting   Sat 05 Jan 2013, 2:30 pm

"Unless its lucky." Firstly. No such thing as luck here. You hit me at the right time, I get damage. We've demonstrated this before.

And I'm saying that when you complain about my lag, and side by side, boast that you perfected me in one single match and tell it to the whole community, is technically being a hypocrite. You simply cannot perfect me without any sort of lag. I don't complain. So you have no right to say that you can't lag me properly. Everyone can be lagged. And honestly, I don't think anyone gets more lagged during racing then me, because of my connection.
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PostSubject: Re: Lag Wasting   Sat 05 Jan 2013, 3:05 pm

You're wrong there. I perfected you when your connection actually made sense like everyone else's seems to do fine. I also heard rumors of Razor or someone beating you quite bad when you went to Starbucks, where you actually had a good connection.

In the morning, your connection appears to be normal. When we were both on equal playing ground and you had a normal connection, I perfected you. I never did any such thing when you lag was how it normally is (which isn't normal).

And this is completely natural, it appears. After your entire NFMM'ing days playing in that advantaged lag that you have, you can't expect yourself to come out just as strong when you're briefly awoken to the usual lag that everyone else has to deal with.

EDIT: So yeah, to re-iterate, there is indeed such thing as luck here. Luck as to what time I play you, luck as to if your connection actually works right when I do. I've hit you maybe 100 different ways, none seem to do any damage when your connection is like it is usually.
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PostSubject: Re: Lag Wasting   Sat 05 Jan 2013, 3:14 pm

No such thing ever happened. Thus, false rumors. (I do wonder If you're just coming up with such things.)
If you're so into saying that my connection is normal in the morning and that I'm just another one of those noobs in the morning, then I'll prove that you're wrong here.
You're a good player. And I respect you for that. But in return, what do I get? I never got any respect or anything by anyone on NFMM. I tried being nice, tried being humble, moral thinking that in the past, maybe it was my attitude that caused everyone to dislike me. But in the end, you all just came up with the lame old lag excuse. Then came a time when I gave no **** about what you all thought.

I'm not being off-topic here. I'm saying that if you all support lag, then theres no point in you telling me that I suck or that I'm nothing, or posses no skill.
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PostSubject: Re: Lag Wasting   Sat 05 Jan 2013, 3:26 pm

I never said you suck or possess no skill. All I said was that your lag aided your skill a lot. If you're curious as to why lots of people in NFMM aren't fond of you, it's because not only is your connection unfair, but you brag often when you win (even if you may not realize it).

I'm not even sure if it's in the morning when your connection is better. All I know is that around 10 am your time was when it was reasonable. I'm not sure if this is consistent or if it was a one-time thing.
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Nu Radical
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PostSubject: Re: Lag Wasting   Sat 05 Jan 2013, 3:45 pm

Demise, try a 1v1 with Steam in Ghostrider, just to try something out. Even though both of your connections may be **** there. Just do it anyway.
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PostSubject: Re: Lag Wasting   Sat 05 Jan 2013, 3:54 pm

Ghostrider never responds. Only Dominion and Avenger are playable for me.
Haven't you ever wondered you never saw me in ghostrider?
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PostSubject: Re: Lag Wasting   Sat 05 Jan 2013, 4:11 pm

Raza it's not an excuse, I've seen you complain about someone being laggy when u were still more laggy theen him. Guess that makes u the hypocrite. Anyway, I'd just like to know why you boost so much about your wins when it's actually not common if someone hits you,they take even more recoil then the damage you take. You will never understand how annoying it is,unless you walk a mile in our shoes (but please don't keep them).
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Omega
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PostSubject: Re: Lag Wasting   Sat 05 Jan 2013, 4:12 pm

Ugh. Lag wasting is horrible. So many n00bs come on and use lag to win. Lag is a pain in the ass.
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PostSubject: Re: Lag Wasting   Sat 05 Jan 2013, 4:23 pm

That warning bar Raza... shh
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PostSubject: Re: Lag Wasting   Sat 05 Jan 2013, 8:00 pm

I don't care about my warning bar.
Prayers. Let the past, be the past. I don't see myself claiming my wins, and boasting now.
In fact, I see that its you. Boasting about someone else's win, in the chatbox the other day when you said that "Demise perfected me." We weren't even discussing that. But you just wanted to show how attentive you are when I lose a match to show me that I lost.

You actually have no right to interfere in my and Demise's games, or in fact, any of my games. You don't like me and you'll try to take on every possible way of making me look bad etc. I take it. But try to keep your ass out of my way.

And I wouldn't like to debate on the lag issue. To much has already been discussed on that. I wonder why you always bring that topic up.

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PostSubject: Re: Lag Wasting   Sat 05 Jan 2013, 9:08 pm

Lol wtf is that supposed to mean. You were boasting about how good u r so I showed u how Demise perfected you. And nice coming for you "keep out of my games" when everytime I have games with Demise u Troll it. "Let the past be the past". Lol coming from you bringing up the war I trolled a bit back. And you didn't stop boasting so no,I'm not bringing up the past like you are.. in the beginning you were like "yeah excuses cuz u lose" but now you don't wanna discuss it since you've realized everyone agrees that. Your web is ultra g@y and it infact isn't an "excuse" we use but an unfair advantage whcih I think is pretty safe to say that you MEAN to do this,since I bet both of ur upload and download speeds are in the decimals yet you still have facebook,youtube,twitter,skype etc open when you're on nfmm. Also I've witnessed a lot of ur games with Demise,he might beat u a few times in a row then ur web gets even g@yer and all of a sudden you beat him by a lot. I doubt that ,that's a coincidence.. So yes, I do not like you because your lagg is possibly the worst on nfmm and you still want "respect". I also love how you claim you respect Demise as a good player but you start calling him a pu$$y when he doesn't wanna play. I can honestly say you're the biggest hypocrite on this entire forum in my honest opinion. Have a good day.
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DragShot
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PostSubject: Re: Lag Wasting   Sun 06 Jan 2013, 12:45 am

@Phyrexian wrote:
Don't forget that without lag, MASHEENs and OP wasters would be nearly impossible to kill. What makes NFMM what it is is some people's ability and skill to deal with those cars, kill them in a few shots with nukes or just troll them with something like Radical One. I wonder how you'd deal with stuff like King Masheen and normal MASHEEN if there wasn't any lag... after all, without lag there would be barely any diffrence between pros and noobs... though I certainly agree lag is irritating in racing, especially when someone flies through you and gets a speed boost while you are spinning out like hell and falling to the last position... XD
x2!
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PostSubject: Re: Lag Wasting   Sun 06 Jan 2013, 1:03 am

@Raza156 wrote:
In fact, I see that its you. Boasting about someone else's win

Lolwut? You can't boast for someone else. Here allow me to help you:
_______________________________________________
boast
Verb:

"Talk with excessive pride and self-satisfaction about one's achievements, possessions, or abilities."
_______________________________________________

Boasting is only when you're talking about yourself. So your attempt at making Prayers look like a hypocrite has failed.

@Raza156 wrote:
And I wouldn't like to debate on the lag issue. To much has already been discussed on that. I wonder why you always bring that topic up.

Maybe because this thread's topic is "Lag Wasting"? If you don't want to debate on it, why in the world would you be on it?

Prayers, Raza can't help his advantageous lag. It's just part of his connection. I doubt he keeps Skype and the like open to further his lag, I think he just does because he wants to. We need to accept it and suck it up, even though it can be extremely frustrating at times.

Raza, you need to understand our frustration even though you can't experience it. And all of our complaining we do, you need to suck that up just like we have to suck up your lag. An eye for an eye my friend.

If you can't understand why we feel this way, let me give you a recent example. Today you had an hour long match with IP (not even much exaggerated). IP played as hard as possible, and obviously was trying incredibly hard to do the large amount of damage he managed on you. Now take those efforts, and throw them away. Now you have virtually every match we play against you. The only times our (my in particular) efforts pay off is when your connection is normal.

I see your perspective. You play your hardest as well just to be accused of having tremendous lag. Now your efforts are thrown out much in the same way. Just know, most people don't even know you have such lag. All they see is who won and who lost, which is why you shouldn't care so much if we complain about losing from lag.


This is bordering off-topic, although the discussion is still based on lag (for anyone about to yell "OFF TOPIC").
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PostSubject: Re: Lag Wasting   Sun 06 Jan 2013, 5:36 am

You guys are exaggerating my lag so much...

If I say, play my best in order to perfect you (I never play for perfection though,) you guys will simply say that I won becaues of my "lag" rather then giving me a genuine compliment saying "gg."

Only your perspective matters here. Mine doesn't. It never did right? Yeah, never did.

Lag IS NFMM.
I have nothing more to say.
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PostSubject: Re: Lag Wasting   Sun 06 Jan 2013, 5:48 am

You only say this because you have never played against your OWN lag.
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Phyrexian
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PostSubject: Re: Lag Wasting   Sun 06 Jan 2013, 8:46 am

One thing I don't get. Usually, laggy people are as slow as hell and they are teleing all over the place. For example, whenever I am recording, I can't really race because all the cars are like as twice as fast as me (see a good example here (watch from about 1:39 until Wolf passes me). Raza barely ever goes somewhat unusually slow, never teles (well, at least barely ever happens when I am playing him) yet when you have to lag him you have to aim for a space like 5 m ahead of him. I must say that the taking damage issue it also kind of mystifing to me, since sometimes it seems to me like to some people I barely do a few pixels when I touch them, but some other people like 10thgrave, when I hit them in Radical One 1v1 they fly across the entire stage and take like 70%.
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