SinfulBliss wrote:

rafa1231518 wrote:

SinfulBliss wrote:

not compatible with Java 7

perhaps then it's time to stop using outdated, unsupported and unsafe software

It's not time because I want the NFM1 versions I have to work. I like being able to customize the security of my Java, and Java 8+ only allows the higher settings.

yes, and java 9 will have no settings and will simply not allow you to use it in-browser, because doing such is a fucking dangerous idea.

also to keep this on topic i would like to add this picture of radical one spinning

Anybody know who Qazedt is on Aim/NFM? Haven't heard of the name before.

EDIT: Oh also, I just played the original NFM1. As iexrrr said, it is easier to waste on most of the stages. Not only because of the easier AI, but also, there are only 4 opponents to waste. And for some reason, it seems like cars have less endurance in the game. Not to mention EL King, one of the main cars you'll waste with during a full-game playthrough, is better at stunting and easier to control.

well Sinful I checked his YouTube channel and he has done a variety of speedruns on his channel besides NFM and I actually talked with him on one of his videos but idk how he knew about the game in the first place.

You still doing Speedruns?

Oh, so this is a thing now. Cool.

SinfulBliss wrote:

rafa1231518 wrote:

alright lads i have started work on a new algorithm to protect against regular memory editing and maybe a little asm cherry on top of that so we can make a proper client.

the idea is that i will use a simple public key encryption algorithm and encrypt the data in such a way that itd be very inconvenient for someone to generate fake data.

additionally i will try to add a replay export feature so even if the person tries to be smart the worst they can do is make some kind of pseudo-TAS.

Damn, if you follow through with this it'd be quite game-changing. An unhackable client would be made the new standard for wars, if any clans happen to have them in the future.

Everything can be hacked, and everyone... with the enough time and patience, of course. And will. Which I don't have anyway.

You know what would be cool? Building the custom client on top of NFM1 (with my Desktop-porting hack so JRE7u21+ can run it with full permissions). That would be so vintage.

rafa1231518 wrote:

just a slight side note: [...] i might be able to kidnap dragshot and do bad things to the places behind his undergarments with pointy objects until he makes it work

DELET THIS M8

SinfulBliss wrote:

iexrrr wrote:

There's a lot more wasting here than in the current leaderboard runs. Wasting would theoretically be faster on every stage; the ones I raced on are the ones where I couldn't find good ways to waste quickly.

It should be noted, though, that in NFMM's version of NFM1 the AI's are more advanced and a bit more tedious to waste than the AI's of NFM1.

They are still unable to properly handle side-walled roads though. At least in NFM1 the bots tried.

rafa1231518 wrote:

SinfulBliss wrote:

rafa1231518 wrote:

SinfulBliss wrote:

not compatible with Java 7

perhaps then it's time to stop using outdated, unsupported and unsafe software

It's not time because I want the NFM1 versions I have to work. I like being able to customize the security of my Java, and Java 8+ only allows the higher settings.

yes, and java 9 will have no settings and will simply not allow you to use it in-browser, because doing such is a fucking dangerous idea.

also to keep this on topic i would like to add this picture of radical one spinning

I'm still waiting to fully understand the many "novelties" of Java 8 before updating my main JDK. Although I already have a functional installation of JDK8u132, but I still use JDK7u80 by default.

My threshold here would be the release of Java 9, after that I will default to Java 8. It's kind of what happened for me to stop supporting Java 6.

DragShot wrote:

You know what would be cool?

no

DragShot wrote:

Building the custom client on top of NFM1

no

DragShot wrote:

so vintage.

no pls

i mean fucking hell. nfm1 is obsolete. it's dated, and it's been replaced by nfmm. everything you want is there, all the stages and the fuckin cars. and dont you dare come to me with the fuckin 'nostalgia' argument i know where you live

DragShot wrote:

They are still unable to properly handle side-walled roads though.

yep i do agree, the AI can't handle the two pieces of side-walled roads that are placed in stages throughout the entire series. you could say it's a bit of an unpopular choice

DragShot wrote:

It's kind of what happened for me to stop supporting Java 6.

you mean the big "source level 1.6 is deprecated and will be removed in a future release" wasn't enough for you?

---

as a side note DS you ported some of the apis like appletcontext to work in desktop maybe you could write a java agent or some sort of bytecode patcher that lets you run applets in modern java?

i would do it myself but i feel like telling other people to do things empowers me

now i couldn't find any nfm rule 34 to put at the bottom of this post but i did manage to find a sizable amount of porn of American McGee's Alice and now i wanna play that game again so see ya

Well sinful I haven't been doing runs because one I wanna get the stupid benchmark and PARCC exams off my god damn back so I can get more free time. Plus I been trying to do streaming so I haven't had any thought of speedrunning or making another YouTube video for my channel in over 2 weeks and it has been a bit more hectic, hell I been slowing down on playing on my laptop because I just don't feel like it because school is just wearing me down until I finally finish those stupid tests and luckily May is the last full month until I get off on the 19th of June which is only due to the fact that the 1 snow day we had put it on a Monday now instead of the 16th which was the original date for summer vacation so somewhere's close to there is probably where I will do full time on a few things if I'm also not lazy because that's also another issue I can't break myself out of.

SheppardkillerYT wrote:

Well sinful I haven't been doing runs because one I wanna get the stupid benchmark and PARCC exams off my god damn back so I can get more free time. Plus I been trying to do streaming so I haven't had any thought of speedrunning or making another YouTube video for my channel in over 2 weeks and it has been a bit more hectic, hell I been slowing down on playing on my laptop because I just don't feel like it because school is just wearing me down until I finally finish those stupid tests and luckily May is the last full month until I get off on the 19th of June which is only due to the fact that the 1 snow day we had put it on a Monday now instead of the 16th which was the original date for summer vacation so somewhere's close to there is probably where I will do full time on a few things if I'm also not lazy because that's also another issue I can't break myself out of.

you know your keyboard has an 'enter' key right, if you press that it adds a lovely line feed to your text field so you can format it into paragraphs.
if you try hard enough, perhaps someone will actually have a fucking clue as to what you're trying to say here, because i sure ain't got one

@DS - while maybe a small, inconspicuous split timer and an RSA encryption on the java files would be a useful update for NFM1, I would err on the side of "less is more."

The appeal starts to fade when NFM1 is modernized.

@Rafa - I don't think NFM1 is obsolete. I get a lot of enjoyment playing it, and I like it more than NFMM's NFM1 version. The NFMM version feels phony. Not gonna stop me from running it 40 times though lol.

I like that bytecode idea or whatever it was.

What is this side-walled road you speak of?

@SheppardKillerYT - damn, June 19th is a long way off. You might want to get another person to moderate the speedruns if you're going to be gone.

I doubt it'll require much maintenance though, if it stays at 3 people. *cough* join slackers *cough*

rafa1231518 wrote:

DragShot wrote:

You know what would be cool?

no

Yes.

rafa1231518 wrote:

DragShot wrote:

Building the custom client on top of NFM1

no

Yes!

rafa1231518 wrote:

DragShot wrote:

so vintage.

no pls

YEEEEES!

rafa1231518 wrote:

i mean fucking hell. nfm1 is obsolete. it's dated, and it's been replaced by nfmm. everything you want is there, all the stages and the fuckin cars. and dont you dare come to me with the fuckin 'nostalgia' argument

Damn dude, calm yo tits for a minute. You don't need to take it so seriously xD.

Besides, the idea of doing this entirely on Nfm1 wasn't mine.

rafa1231518 wrote:

i know where you live

Come over here, and manage to make it back with everything you brought. I dare you.

rafa1231518 wrote:

DragShot wrote:

It's kind of what happened for me to stop supporting Java 6.

you mean the big "source level 1.6 is deprecated and will be removed in a future release" wasn't enough for you?

Nope, not enough.

Heck, I'm currently working with stuff as old as source 1.4, while still messing around with 1.8. Do you think I don't know where to use what anyway?

rafa1231518 wrote:

as a side note DS you ported some of the apis like appletcontext to work in desktop maybe you could write a java agent or some sort of bytecode patcher that lets you run applets in modern java?

i would do it myself but i feel like telling other people to do things empowers me

Go ahead, boy. This man is too old already. And busy.

Mainly busy, actually. And stressed. God, I can hardly work in my own stuff like that. Actually, there are days in which I find myself seriously considering sending both studies and employment to hell, and go back to my own stuff. At least I have enough money saved for living unemployed for maybe a year.

OK, I might try, if I find I can make it fast. No promises made though.

SinfulBliss wrote:

@DS - while maybe a small, inconspicuous split timer and an RSA encryption on the java files would be a useful update for NFM1, I would err on the side of "less is more."

The appeal starts to fade when NFM1 is modernized.

This is what I was talking about. Although if my old memory doesn't fail me (it probably does already) I removed the decorations for both NFM1 and NFM2 modes in DS-addons pack.

Speaking of which, I cannot finish a single thing with that. Not even moving the previous hacks. I should try to at least push a maintenance update, although that would mean zero new stuff.

SinfulBliss wrote:

@Rafa - I don't think NFM1 is obsolete. I get a lot of enjoyment playing it, and I like it more than NFMM's NFM1 version. The NFMM version feels phony. Not gonna stop me from running it 40 times though lol.

Well, technically it is. It really is.

SinfulBliss wrote:

I like that bytecode idea or whatever it was.

What I like about it is the fact you can improve it. The base I put, well, it is kind of lame, but with some aggressive obfuscation on the binaries it does the job quite well actually (if you set your own byte-swapping pattern, of course).

SinfulBliss wrote:

What is this side-walled road you speak of?

That one track piece introduced in Nfm1 - Stage 7 that you can't pass through. I forgot its name.

DragShot wrote:

You don't need to take it so seriously

oh dont be silly if i were taking you seriously your family would already be dead

DragShot wrote:

Besides, the idea of doing this entirely on Nfm1 wasn't mine.

yes it fwas yo ufuckign brough it up reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

DragShot wrote:

Nope, not enough.

you do you, boy

DragShot wrote:

Do you think I don't know where to use what anyway?

yes that is exactly my point

DragShot wrote:

OK, I might try, if I find I can make it fast. No promises made though.

no promises made = i will ask you about this for the next five years

DragShot wrote:

I should try to at least push a maintenance update, although that would mean zero new stuff.

haha i getit its funny because src is dead

DragShot wrote:

What I like about it is the fact you can improve it.

no

DragShot wrote:

with some aggressive obfuscation on the binaries it does the job quite well

no no it doesnt its nearly worse than XOR, please, DS, your encryption is shit

DragShot wrote:

That one track piece introduced in Nfm1 - Stage 7 that you can't pass through. I forgot its name.

Ahh, those. I quite enjoy how the AI sucks with them - makes the run faster.

DragShot wrote:

Well, technically it is. It really is.

Okay, I'll extend an olive branch. It is outdated yes, and it is old and largely has been replaced by NFMM. However, many people still enjoy playing it because it was the game they grew up with. NFM1 was around for far longer than NFM2. I remember when NFM2 was released and it felt like some big new present was about to be unleashed.

That's the appeal to speedrunning it as well.

DragShot wrote:

many people still enjoy playing it because it was the game they grew up with.

HNNG HE PULLED THE NOSTALGIA CARD

HNNG CAN YOU HEAR THAT
THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME RIPPING MY DICK RIGHT OFF
YEP IT'S GOING TO SPACE

rafa1231518 wrote:

DragShot wrote:

You don't need to take it so seriously

oh dont be silly if i were taking you seriously your family would already be dead

Oh, I am sooo scared. *Swigs scrumpy*

rafa1231518 wrote:

DragShot wrote:

Do you think I don't know where to use what anyway?

yes that is exactly my point

Yer point, yer problem lad.

rafa1231518 wrote:

DragShot wrote:

OK, I might try, if I find I can make it fast. No promises made though.

no promises made = i will ask you about this for the next five years

Might as well join the queue of seen messages. Your ticket is A-27.

rafa1231518 wrote:

DragShot wrote:

I should try to at least push a maintenance update, although that would mean zero new stuff.

haha i getit its funny because src is dead

Ikr

rafa1231518 wrote:

DragShot wrote:

What I like about it is the fact you can improve it.

no

Yes.

rafa1231518 wrote:

DragShot wrote:

with some aggressive obfuscation on the binaries it does the job quite well

no no it doesnt its nearly worse than XOR, please, DS, your encryption is shit

That isn't encryption, boy, not even close in concept. That's just byte-swapping. It was meant to keep naughty kiddos away from touching stuff that isn't theirs, and it worked well enough.

I don't like going overkill. At least not that often.

SinfulBliss wrote:

DragShot wrote:

That one track piece introduced in Nfm1 - Stage 7 that you can't pass through. I forgot its name.

Ahh, those. I quite enjoy how the AI sucks with them - makes the run faster.

I find it funny.

SinfulBliss wrote:

DragShot wrote:

Well, technically it is. It really is.

Okay, I'll extend an olive branch. It is outdated yes, and it is old and largely has been replaced by NFMM. However, many people still enjoy playing it because it was the game they grew up with. NFM1 was around for far longer than NFM2. I remember when NFM2 was released and it felt like some big new present was about to be unleashed.

That's the appeal to speedrunning it as well.

Ah, the ol' good days. I miss those.

rafa1231518 wrote:

SinfulBliss wrote:

many people still enjoy playing it because it was the game they grew up with.

HNNG HE PULLED THE NOSTALGIA CARD

HNNG CAN YOU HEAR THAT
THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME RIPPING MY DICK RIGHT OFF
YEP IT'S GOING TO SPACE

All aboard the Nostalgia Train. Next stop: the 2000s!

We also go all the way back to the 80s gentlemen.

hey so i did the thing i asked you to do a few hours ago



what can i say, i work fast
except in bed

edit: heres some technical details
instead of using a java agent or bytecode editing i used simple inheritance. because the nfm classes arent marked

Code:

Inline: final

and dont even have a package assigned i can use inheritance to modify the classes on a per-method basis, which isnt as good as instrumentation but its good enough to run the game just fine on java 8.
of course i had to use a bit of hacking to fix the relative path but i think i got it to a point where it works fairly well.

i havent tested with nfm2 yet so im not sure whether its gonna need any changes but its looking güd so far

the only dependency this has to nfm is a runtime and a compile dependency (during compilation can be any nfm1 version, im using the stock arcadetown nfm1 here) and as long as the structure matches, java will ignore any possible checksum mismatches and the game will run

edit 2: heres a screenshot from ten graves' Warzone NFM2 to prove that this works with any nfm version

i don't need to decompile it or anything like that, just link it at runtime to the madness.jar in the version folder

rafa1231518 wrote:

-snip-

Does it require a specific version or just has to be Java 8?

SinfulBliss wrote:

rafa1231518 wrote:

-snip-

Does it require a specific version or just has to be Java 8?

well theoretically you can compile it with any version of java that's modern enough, but if i release it then it's java 8 and above because that's what i build for

but you don't need a specific version like java 7u20 like you did previously, that's entirely the point of this

rafa1231518 wrote:

SinfulBliss wrote:

rafa1231518 wrote:

-snip-

Does it require a specific version or just has to be Java 8?

well theoretically you can compile it with any version of java that's modern enough, but if i release it then it's java 8 and above because that's what i build for

but you don't need a specific version like java 7u20 like you did previously, that's entirely the point of this

Well that's incredibly useful. And what the hell, does that stage full of 300 cars actually run?

SinfulBliss wrote:

rafa1231518 wrote:

SinfulBliss wrote:

rafa1231518 wrote:

-snip-

Does it require a specific version or just has to be Java 8?

well theoretically you can compile it with any version of java that's modern enough, but if i release it then it's java 8 and above because that's what i build for

but you don't need a specific version like java 7u20 like you did previously, that's entirely the point of this

Well that's incredibly useful. And what the hell, does that stage full of 300 cars actually run?

surprisingly well, actually. so well that it's got me spending the last few hours trying to iron out the speedup 'bug' without violating trademark law and getting a lawsuit from Oracle

rafa1231518 wrote:

-snip-

The bug that has plagued almost all NFM1 versions, from Jigoku to NFM MDX v2.

rafa1231518 wrote:

hey so i did the thing i asked you to do a few hours ago



[...]

i don't need to decompile it or anything like that, just link it at runtime to the madness.jar in the version folder

Ah, the wonders of youth.

Well done, mate.

SinfulBliss wrote:

rafa1231518 wrote:

surprisingly well, actually. so well that it's got me spending the last few hours trying to iron out the speedup 'bug' without violating trademark law and getting a lawsuit from Oracle

The bug that has plagued almost all NFM1 versions, from Jigoku to NFM MDX v2.

Ugh, that bug comes from the very system Omar uses for controlling the FPS. If you use two different framerates between the game and the pause menu, and then try to smooth the wait between frames, of course something is gonna mess up when you quickly switch between the two.

SinfulBliss wrote:

What is this side-walled road you speak of?

@SheppardKillerYT - damn, June 19th is a long way off. You might want to get another person to moderate the speedruns if you're going to be gone.

The side walled road is basically a barrier track piece and yeah the AI just fucks up a lot when you actually see them try to drive through it only to be stuck in place but even if it does make a run of the stage faster it still causes issues for the player trying to waste the cars and also you can easy suicide if you kept going back and forth against the 2 barriers, literally how does that become a thing.

Also about the school thing it doesn't necessarily mean I'm inactive it's just that I will have less communication while trying to do all of my tests but I will periodically check here and the speedrun forum for NFM 1 to see if I got any new notifications before doing my own thing here and hopefully trying to NOT crash my computer like I already did during the weekend. Other than that I will try my best to be active at least everyday but if anything bad comes up, I will let you guys know.

SheppardkillerYT wrote:

SinfulBliss wrote:

What is this side-walled road you speak of?

@SheppardKillerYT - damn, June 19th is a long way off. You might want to get another person to moderate the speedruns if you're going to be gone.

The side walled road is basically a barrier track piece and yeah the AI just fucks up a lot when you actually see them try to drive through it only to be stuck in place but even if it does make a run of the stage faster it still causes issues for the player trying to waste the cars and also you can easy suicide if you kept going back and forth against the 2 barriers, literally how does that become a thing.

Also about the school thing it doesn't necessarily mean I'm inactive it's just that I will have less communication while trying to do all of my tests but I will periodically check here and the speedrun forum for NFM 1 to see if I got any new notifications before doing my own thing here and hopefully trying to NOT crash my computer like I already did during the weekend. Other than that I will try my best to be active at least everyday but if anything bad comes up, I will let you guys know.

What are your thoughts on speedrunning through the almost unhackable client? If Rafa releases the Java 7 --> Java 8 port, you could keep your current Java version and use it.

Might be good to start moving over, if the option is there.

I have no idea but I hope it doesn't have any drastic changes like FPS drops and shit because I'm sick of games that do that and in short would make me waste over a year of my life before getting a new shit piece of hardware that can run it properly because I've had a huge experience with bad computers and let me tell you, wasting over $100 on games you can't play for the next year and a half is fucking nerve racking along with trying to play the same game over and over again.

Okay, so here's what I have currently for how to consistently run the game most efficiently:

Stage 1 - The Introductory Stage - Race (Formula 7)

Stage 2 - Contrary To Popular Belief - Race (Formula 7)

Stage 3 - Do The Snake Dance - Race (Formula 7)

Stage 4 - Grapefruit Power - Race (Formula 7)

Stage 5 - He Is Coming For You Next - Race (Formula 7)

Stage 6 - Paninaro| Caninaro| Let's fly! - Race (Formula 7)

Stage 7 - When In Danger Just Chill Out - Waste (EL KING)

Stage 8 - The Fast & The Furious + The Radical - Race (Formula 7)

Stage 9 - The Beach Arcade Dream - Race (Radical One)

Stage 10 - Confusion In An Illusion - Race (Radical One)

Stage 11 - The Mad Party - Waste (DR Monstaa)


Notice I said "consistently." You can probably waste faster on Stage 10, Stage 5, and even Stage 3; but it's risky. Also, if you get nervous, Stage 11 might actually take longer by Wasting.