SinfulBliss wrote:

Another point to raise: Are we banning the F7 invincibility glitch for Waste-only? I've tested it and I think it's too slow to use for NG Any %, but I don't think it should be banned since it was left in the game just like AB was.

It's also not game-breaking like the car select glitch is.

i still don't know what that is

rafa1231518 wrote:

SinfulBliss wrote:

Another point to raise: Are we banning the F7 invincibility glitch for Waste-only? I've tested it and I think it's too slow to use for NG Any %, but I don't think it should be banned since it was left in the game just like AB was.

It's also not game-breaking like the car select glitch is.

i still don't know what that is

Found some vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xj5_zVc6KQE

SinfulBliss wrote:

rafa1231518 wrote:

SinfulBliss wrote:

Another point to raise: Are we banning the F7 invincibility glitch for Waste-only? I've tested it and I think it's too slow to use for NG Any %, but I don't think it should be banned since it was left in the game just like AB was.

It's also not game-breaking like the car select glitch is.

i still don't know what that is

Found some vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xj5_zVc6KQE

ah. yes this lowers the cars collision radius (or is it comprad? i cant remember) so basically every hit affects only the cars wheels which does not deal damage. this is possible with any car if you have the patience (and i believe it cannot be done so easily with f7 in classic nfm1 because the car is shaped to spoke outwards)

i dont think it should be banned because aside from being a slow-to-execute glitch it can technically happen naturally (although that would be a very rare occurence, since f7 has so little strength it tends to get wasted in few hits)

what i do disagree with is that a glitch - any glitch - should be allowed simply because it was left in the game because as we know, omar gives zero shits and he simply will not care about a glitch of that sort.
i still think AB is absurd and it should be removed from the game entirely but it's used too prominently for it to be worthwhile to ban it as a strategy in speedruns.

rafa1231518 wrote:

ah. yes this lowers the cars collision radius (or is it comprad? i cant remember) so basically every hit affects only the cars wheels which does not deal damage. this is possible with any car if you have the patience (and i believe it cannot be done so easily with f7 in classic nfm1 because the car is shaped to spoke outwards)

In classic NFM1, it's even faster with F7. Only a few hits, and he only ends up with 50% after the tunnel damage, whereas in the new NFM1 he ends up with 95% or so. Perhaps it's because in classic NFM1 he has fewer polys.

rafa1231518 wrote:

i dont think it should be banned because aside from being a slow-to-execute glitch it can technically happen naturally (although that would be a very rare occurence, since f7 has so little strength it tends to get wasted in few hits)

Yeah that would also be my reasoning. It happens whether people want it to or not. Even hits from other cars technically causes it to some small degree.

rafa1231518 wrote:

what i do disagree with is that a glitch - any glitch - should be allowed simply because it was left in the game because as we know, omar gives zero shits and he simply will not care about a glitch of that sort.
i still think AB is absurd and it should be removed from the game entirely but it's used too prominently for it to be worthwhile to ban it as a strategy in speedruns.

AB is very balancing in my opinion. F7 and M8 are still viable cars for racing. Without R1's AB, he would be largely irrelevant in racing, unless you think his aerial control alone could make up enough room to vie with F7 and M8 speed. AB is also incredibly useful for keeping near full power on longer stages.

EDIT: Rafa, I did a bit of testing on your encrypted client. A couple bugs I encountered:

Spoiler:

Other than that it seems fine.

SinfulBliss wrote:

- Music removed
- Freezes when pausing or clicking off the screen
- Distance to next checkpoint text slightly obscures car names when arrow locking

already fixed all of those for the next version. i'll release it as soon as i finish my magical universal checksum system

Was just playing, and I really wonder what determines which cars are put into which stage. It seems to be random, but certainly it has to be based on something.

SinfulBliss wrote:

Was just playing, and I really wonder what determines which cars are put into which stage. It seems to be random, but certainly it has to be based on something.

i remember i once had an idea to make a topic where i went into specific detail how each part of the source code worked. i never did it, but the ideas have continued to roam my mind.

Begin the sortcars routine.

Let Stage = The current stage, starting from 1.

Let C = -1 be a non-available car.
Let C = 0 be Tornado Shark.
Let C = 16 be Dr. Monstaa.

Let SC = [ ... ] be a collection of cars, from zero to six.
SC[0] will refer to the player's car.
SC[6] will refer to the stage's boss car.
SC[1...5] will refer to the other AI-controlled cars.

If the stage being loaded is invalid, exit the subroutine without doing anything.

Assign C = -1 to each value of SC, except for SC[0].

Let CarFound = [ ... ] be an array of flags, from zero to six.
These flags may contain the values 'true' or 'false.'
CarFound[0] will refer to the player's car.
CarFound[4 in NFM1, 6 in NFM2] will refer to the stage's boss car.
CarFound[1...[3 in NFM1, 5 in NFM2]] will refer to the other AI-controlled cars.

Let CarCount = 7 be the number of cars in the race.
Let GameMode be whether the game mode is NFM1 or NFM2.

If GameMode is NFM1, let CarCount = 5.

Let IsNotBoss = false be a flag which shall represent whether a suitable boss car could be found, if GameMode is NFM1.

If Stage is less than or equal to 10, begin a subroutine.

* Let BossIndex = 6.
* If GameMode is NFM1, let BossIndex = 4.
* If Stage is 1 or 2, and the player has not selected the car at index 5, let SC[BossIndex] = 5 and let CarCount = BossIndex.
* If Stage is 3 or 4, and the player has not selected the car at index 6, let SC[BossIndex] = 6 and let CarCount = BossIndex.
* If Stage is 5 or 6, and the player has not selected the car at index 11, let SC[BossIndex] = 11 and let CarCount = BossIndex.
* If Stage is 7 or 8, and the player has not selected the car at index 14, let SC[BossIndex] = 14 and let CarCount = BossIndex.
* If Stage is 9 or 10, and the player has not selected the car at index 15, let SC[BossIndex] = 15 and let CarCount = BossIndex.


End the subroutine.
If the previous subroutine was not executed, begin a subroutine.

* Subtract 10 to Stage.
* Let IsNotBoss = true.
* Let PlayerSelectedCar = SC[0]; convenience purposes.
* Let TargetBossCar = (7 + (Stage + 1) / 2)
* If PlayerSelectedCar is not TargetBossCar and the Stage is not 17, let SC[6] = TargetBossCar and let CarCount = 6.

End the subroutine.

(Implicit: End the sortcars routine.)

i got about halfway through before i got bored.
the above was just boss car resolution, the rest of the code was filling up the actual non-boss car slots.
my version actually uses a much simpler and arguably better solution:

Begin the sortcars routine.

Let SC = [ ... ] be a collection of cars, from zero to six.
SC[0] will refer to the player's car.
SC[6] will refer to the stage's boss car.
SC[1...5] will refer to the other AI-controlled cars.

Let EligibleCars = an collection of the cars eligible for the race, including the boss car.

Shuffle EligibleCars.

Assign the values in SC to the entries in EligibleCars.

End the sortcars routine.

rafa1231518 wrote:

-snip-

What causes different cars to be on the same stage when it is supposedly random, provided your car is the same every start? Maybe you explained that but in layman's terms, if possible.

Also, by better solution, do you mean just optimized code, or will your version actually change the outcome of AI selection (which would be slightly problematic in reference to speedruns due to lack of consistency among legal versions)?

SinfulBliss wrote:

rafa1231518 wrote:

-snip-

What causes different cars to be on the same stage when it is supposedly random, provided your car is the same every start? Maybe you explained that but in layman's terms, if possible.

Also, by better solution, do you mean just optimized code, or will your version actually change the outcome of AI selection (which would be slightly problematic in reference to speedruns due to lack of consistency among legal versions)?

i spent the afternoon trying to compress the mess of code into readable text but it's kinda like finding a needle in a dildostack so i said fuck it and decided to install BSD

by the way how does the any% run differ from the NG any%?

rafa1231518 wrote:

by the way how does the any% run differ from the NG any%?

Any% you can use any car, and all stages are already unlocked. So you can use R1 from stage 1-11 if you want. NG any% you play the game from start to finish, with cars and stages locked.

We should make it clear that NFM1 individual level racing trials have to be done in practice mode (no CPUs). Obviously for Classic NFM1, practice mode is not an option.

Spoiler:

For full game Race Only% and Any% runs, practice mode should not be an option. Not that it would be any faster, because on the stages where it's faster to waste you would be screwed, and you'd have to set each stage to "practice mode" which would take up a lot of time. Despite saving a bit of time on maybe Stages 5 and 10, you would be slowed down dramatically on Stages 7 and 11.

SinfulBliss wrote:

Any% you can use any car, and all stages are already unlocked.

ah, so much for 'car select glitch' then, this was a category all along!

SinfulBliss wrote:

if any car is allowed then it's no longer about running the game "as it was intended," and it becomes "how fast can you finish this track?" which should not involve random AIs interfering with the race

you can't practice mode in NFM1/2 mode

SinfulBliss wrote:

For full game Race Only% and Any% runs, practice mode should not be an option

you can't practice mode in NFM1/2 mode

(if you can then im gonna look really stupid but im pretty sure you cant)

rafa1231518 wrote:

SinfulBliss wrote:

Any% you can use any car, and all stages are already unlocked.

ah, so much for 'car select glitch' then, this was a category all along!

SinfulBliss wrote:

if any car is allowed then it's no longer about running the game "as it was intended," and it becomes "how fast can you finish this track?" which should not involve random AIs interfering with the race

you can't practice mode in NFM1/2 mode

SinfulBliss wrote:

For full game Race Only% and Any% runs, practice mode should not be an option

you can't practice mode in NFM1/2 mode

(if you can then im gonna look really stupid but im pretty sure you cant)

Freeplay is an option that lets you choose between either NFM1 or NFM2, and there is practice mode allowed in it. Freeplay is the mode people will be choosing for NFM1 single-level runs because it automatically allows any car and any stage, whereas in NFM1 mode you have to unlock them first. Also, as I said in the post before, it seems to me that single-level runs make the most sense in practice-mode.

SinfulBliss wrote:

rafa1231518 wrote:

SinfulBliss wrote:

Any% you can use any car, and all stages are already unlocked.

ah, so much for 'car select glitch' then, this was a category all along!

SinfulBliss wrote:

if any car is allowed then it's no longer about running the game "as it was intended," and it becomes "how fast can you finish this track?" which should not involve random AIs interfering with the race

you can't practice mode in NFM1/2 mode

SinfulBliss wrote:

For full game Race Only% and Any% runs, practice mode should not be an option

you can't practice mode in NFM1/2 mode

(if you can then im gonna look really stupid but im pretty sure you cant)

Freeplay is an option that lets you choose between either NFM1 or NFM2, and there is practice mode allowed in it. Freeplay is the mode people will be choosing for NFM1 single-level runs because it automatically allows any car and any stage, whereas in NFM1 mode you have to unlock them first. Also, as I said in the post before, it seems to me that single-level runs make the most sense in practice-mode.

doesnt freeplay reset you to the main menu and randomize the stage every time, wouldnt that be a hassle for full game runs?

rafa1231518 wrote:

doesnt freeplay reset you to the main menu and randomize the stage every time, wouldnt that be a hassle for full game runs?

Yeah, freeplay isn't going to be any faster for full-game runs anyway.

SinfulBliss wrote:

rafa1231518 wrote:

doesnt freeplay reset you to the main menu and randomize the stage every time, wouldnt that be a hassle for full game runs?

Yeah, freeplay isn't going to be any faster for full-game runs anyway.

i dont know where youre going with that, im saying its a bad idea and youre agreeing with me

rafa1231518 wrote:

SinfulBliss wrote:

rafa1231518 wrote:

doesnt freeplay reset you to the main menu and randomize the stage every time, wouldnt that be a hassle for full game runs?

Yeah, freeplay isn't going to be any faster for full-game runs anyway.

i dont know where youre going with that, im saying its a bad idea and youre agreeing with me

My main point was that freeplay should be allowed and maybe even required for single-level runs. The fact that it's worse for full-game runs was just an aside to reinforce the idea that it wouldn't matter if it was allowed.

SinfulBliss wrote:

rafa1231518 wrote:

SinfulBliss wrote:

rafa1231518 wrote:

doesnt freeplay reset you to the main menu and randomize the stage every time, wouldnt that be a hassle for full game runs?

Yeah, freeplay isn't going to be any faster for full-game runs anyway.

i dont know where youre going with that, im saying its a bad idea and youre agreeing with me

My main point was that freeplay should be allowed and maybe even required for single-level runs. The fact that it's worse for full-game runs was just an aside to reinforce the idea that it wouldn't matter if it was allowed.

right. so freeplay for single-level runs and regular NFM1/2 mode for full game runs. that makes more sense. thanks! i'll update the rules

rafa1231518 wrote:

right. so freeplay for single-level runs and regular NFM1/2 mode for full game runs. that makes more sense. thanks! i'll update the rules

Be sure you don't add that for Wasting Only%, because obviously you can't waste in practice mode.

SinfulBliss wrote:

rafa1231518 wrote:

right. so freeplay for single-level runs and regular NFM1/2 mode for full game runs. that makes more sense. thanks! i'll update the rules

Be sure you don't add that for Wasting Only%, because obviously you can't waste in practice mode.

im not that dumb mate

side note: is anyone interested in doing "getting weird with it" runs like "0x spacebar presses" or "reversing only" or "no damage from AI taken"? i really like those kinds of novelty runs but im only one man so i wanna gauge your guys' interest for stuff like that

rafa1231518 wrote:

side note: is anyone interested in doing "getting weird with it" runs like "0x spacebar presses" or "reversing only" or "no damage from AI taken"? i really like those kinds of novelty runs but im only one man so i wanna gauge your guys' interest for stuff like that

Sure, or even like challenges. Those in particular, maybe just the no damage from AI one. Also maybe a race-everything-with-F7 or "waste everyone with Nimi" kind of stuff.

i've updated the rules, and added four little challenges to the miscellaneous tab. check them out, give suggestions, criticism et cetera.

rafa1231518 wrote:

i've updated the rules, and added four little challenges to the miscellaneous tab. check them out, give suggestions, criticism et cetera.

- For 0x spacebar presses, the "Please include footage of a camera pointing at your keyboard in your video submission" is probably too much trouble. I'd recommend a program like QiPress, which shows when the user clicks a certain key. Here are the settings to only display Space, among other keys: http://prntscr.com/f5o8k7

You can add that to resources if you like the idea.

- Pacifist % seems too RNG-reliant to be a valid speedrun category. The player has almost no control over whether or not AIs waste each other.

- No AI Damage Taken % is going to be near impossible if you think about stages like MP. The best idea would be to bounce out with R1 and wait until there's 1 car left, and hope to outrace him. Maybe that's a bit too difficult. It might be a good idea to add a "# of contacts" stipulation to the run submission for that Misc., which would rank your run on the least # of collisions, taking the time into account secondarily.

SinfulBliss wrote:

- For 0x spacebar presses, the "Please include footage of a camera pointing at your keyboard in your video submission" is probably too much trouble. I'd recommend a program like QiPress, which shows when the user clicks a certain key.

kek :p i thought the exact same thing but i was like 'well people can just fake that'
but then i saw all the other speedrun games use it
and then i felt stupid

SinfulBliss wrote:

The player has almost no control over whether or not AIs waste each other.

that's exactly the point, silly! get a car with terrible moment stat and try to both finish the race as fast as you can and keep the AI cars away from each other, causing awful stress and brain-eating damage min/maxing

SinfulBliss wrote:

It might be a good idea to add a "# of contacts" stipulation to the run submission for that Misc., which would rank your run on the least # of collisions

i was thinking about htat, i'll probably try and do something like that yeah, i just didn't think itd be so hard to finish without getting hit


side note. we should create a discord for nfm speedrunning because traversing aim can be a bit of an ass. keep it business only because i still am not your friend and i don't like you and i don't want to get any closer to you in any way.

rafa1231518 wrote:

side note. we should create a discord for nfm speedrunning because traversing aim can be a bit of an ass. keep it business only because i still am not your friend and i don't like you and i don't want to get any closer to you in any way.

I think it's good to keep it public in case someone wants to join. After all, you scared off SheppardKillerYT so now it's just me and Qazedt running. Interested to see if one of the competitive racers joins and how they fare.

If you're having trouble with Aim, I highly recommend following the topic(s), and connecting notifications to an email (Profile --> Notifications). I use Thunderbird so I get instant notifications whenever a new post is made on a topic I'm interested in.

SinfulBliss wrote:

rafa1231518 wrote:

side note. we should create a discord for nfm speedrunning because traversing aim can be a bit of an ass. keep it business only because i still am not your friend and i don't like you and i don't want to get any closer to you in any way.

I think it's good to keep it public in case someone wants to join. After all, you scared off SheppardKillerYT so now it's just me and Qazedt running. Interested to see if one of the competitive racers joins and how they fare.

If you're having trouble with Aim, I highly recommend following the topic(s), and connecting notifications to an email (Profile --> Notifications). I use Thunderbird so I get instant notifications whenever a new post is made on a topic I'm interested in.

well it's still pretty shit to have to click several times before getting to write a post. i think there should be a place to get instant feedback considering ip has stated many times over the forums should not be used for IMs.

i went ahead and made a discord: https://discord.gg/5kQNPSe

if you could add it to the main post thatd be cool.