rafa1231518 wrote:

as i said, there's no point 'changing' the cars because unless you're doing a non-NG run it's gonna be the same few cars - it's only displayed to be informative, so if you pick a car that would be on the grid on a stage you know what car replaces the car you pick on the grid.

Okay, I never knew that the cars were the same, but what will you do about the extra advantage in non-NG runs?

rafa1231518 wrote:

it's our job to keep the runs legit, isn't it? i'm sure you can cheat in Undertale runs as well, for example.

Yeah, and in the end the mods can have the final examination of whatever run is turned in without the harder-to-hack client (see, that's why I say unhackable, it has a better ring to it).

Speaking of mods checking runs, need someone to approve my new WR.

SinfulBliss wrote:

but what will you do about the extra advantage in non-NG runs?

if it's a problem, then i can simply disable it when you've already completed the stage; it shouldn't be a problem since i only added this feature to help figure out the strategy for pacifist runs and thought it might be useful

SinfulBliss wrote:

see, that's why I say unhackable, it has a better ring to it

unhackable makes it sound like something it isn't. i like calling it "bulletproof," or just "mantis toboggan's pro speedrunner"

SinfulBliss wrote:

Speaking of mods checking runs, need someone to approve my new WR.

you can't verify your own run as a mod? that's a bit counterintuitive isn't it? i'll get to it once i finish watching reruns of Chris Morris' Jam

edit: LGTM, verified

rafa1231518 wrote:

if it's a problem, then i can simply disable it when you've already completed the stage; it shouldn't be a problem since i only added this feature to help figure out the strategy for pacifist runs and thought it might be useful

Sounds good to me.

rafa1231518 wrote:

you can't verify your own run as a mod?

Well you can, but generally, and SheppardKiller mentioned this a while ago too, mods shouldn't verify their own runs. Just a bit suspicious, although it would be convenient.

SinfulBliss wrote:

mods shouldn't verify their own runs.

fair enough



(quality forum-worthy discussion)

----------------------

here's the latest strat for pacifist nfmm

stage 1-2: formula 7 since it's the weakest car. of course picking F7 makes nimi appear but picking, say, tornado shark makes f7 appear so it's the least of two evils
3-4: max revenge since it's the strongest car it's gonna be picking up scraps from Lead Oxide
5: max revenge - w/ lvc-lo-caninaro AIs
6: F7?
7: El King
8: F7
9: F7
10: R1
11: HELL

Here is strategy for No Country For Old Men challenge. Good keanu reeves movie. Developed in USSR mother land.

Stage 1 - Tornado Shark: Remove the traitor capitalist as fast as can.
Stage 2 - Wow Caninaro: Kick out the non-believer in name of lord Putin.
3 - LVC: Not good racer. Good racist though.
4 - NIMI: Very good stunt but power level is low. This make good for short track like this.
5 - LO: Is very poor vehicle. But can stand hit.
6 - MR: Max is good waste, but might race if can.
7 - EL KING: You race. Yes, you race. This is no joke. Is very possible.
8 - F7: Is necessary for race! Very important! You must use!
9 - R1: Only left option! Unlock at 8! You will must use.
10 - R1: You get duplicate! R1 is good. Use again.
11 - DRM: I hate DRM! How am I going pirate games? But I need use it.

Okay, I just ran the No Country For Old Men challenge. Here's what I recommend using.

Stage 1 - The Introductory Stage - Race (Tornado Shark)

Stage 2 - Contrary To Popular Belief - Race (La Vita Crab)

Stage 3 - Do The Snake Dance - Waste (Wow Caninaro)

Stage 4 - Grapefruit Power - Race (Nimi)

Stage 5 - He Is Coming For You Next - Race (Lead Oxide)

Stage 6 - Paninaro| Caninaro| Let's fly! - Race (Max Revenge)

Stage 7 - When In Danger Just Chill Out - Waste (EL KING)

Stage 8 - The Fast & The Furious + The Radical - Race (Formula 7)

Stage 9 - The Beach Arcade Dream - Race (Radical One)

Stage 10 - Confusion In An Illusion - Race (Radical One) - or - Waste (EL KING)

Stage 11 - The Mad Party - Waste (DR Monstaa)

If you're making a modded version, can you also make some sort of tas functionality like frame-advance?

XYLO wrote:

If you're making a modded version, can you also make some sort of tas functionality like frame-advance?

soon(TM)

rafa1231518 wrote:

XYLO wrote:

If you're making a modded version, can you also make some sort of tas functionality like frame-advance?

soon(TM)

You got it yet?

SinfulBliss wrote:

rafa1231518 wrote:

XYLO wrote:

If you're making a modded version, can you also make some sort of tas functionality like frame-advance?

soon(TM)

You got it yet?

EDIT: Move your NFMM "music" folder into the folder you extracted this client into, or it won't work.

Nice release, gonna leave bug fixes/recommendations here:

Spoiler:

I'll add stuff as I test, I recommend people check this out though the rewind feature is neat.

SinfulBliss wrote:

Minimap obscured by split times.

will fix

SinfulBliss wrote:

Instant replays show rewinds (likely unfixable due to the way replays are structured)

replays in the next version will follow the same structure as the rewind system so this won't be a problem

SinfulBliss wrote:

"safe landing" text visible

will fix

SinfulBliss wrote:

"R" can be held at the beginning, and it pauses the timer indefinitely, while the CPUs continue to play. Could be abused to let CPUs damage themselves with no time penalty.

will fix

rafa1231518 wrote:

replays in the next version will follow the same structure as the rewind system so this won't be a problem

Is this just some shit you made up on the spot to sound smart?

I swear half the shit you tell me is complete bullshit kappa

Does speedruns of individual stages count???

XYLO wrote:

Does speedruns of individual stages count???

Yep, here's the page: https://www.speedrun.com/need_for_madness_1/individual_levels

EDIT: Bug-list update:

Spoiler:

i'm not sure if this is still relevant to this thread, but i've fixed the 'speedup' bug from NFM1 in my java 8 wrapper client.
i used runtime bytecode editing since there doesn't appear to be any other way that doesn't violate the JDK license.

i'm not sure whether it happens in nfm2 or not so i left the fix enabled for both. next step is to wrap SoundClip in DesktopSoundClip to fix random freezing.



edit: i've fixed the sound clip, but the freezing keeps happening. i don't see a spike in GC activity, CPU usage or number of threads. i suspected a rogue Thread.sleep call, but couldn't find one. i'm going to try disabling sound/music now, to see if that's the problem. anyone experienced with nfm1, any ideas?

edit 2: the freeze seems to be due to an exception in *Clip obscured by empty catch block. my initial suspicion that it was either sound/music was correct. 1 point for me.

bump

NFM1 any% in 21:49
NFM all cars run in 22:44
NFM1 one car run in 20:49

I also submitted a NFM2 run, first one on the site:
43:03
iexrrr also has one.

comments on some of the categories:

• NG Waste Only: This is nearly impossible to do in NFM1 and impossible in NFM2. (In NFM1, wasting in each stage possible with DrM, but not in NFM2, because of The Stretch)
  
• NG Least Spacebar Presses any%: This is probably the dumbest speedrunning category I have ever seen. Not being allowed to press spacebar makes the game really slow-paced and boring, which speedrunning is not supposed to be. (hence "speed") Also, almost always in speedrunning, all you need to do a run is a game, a recording software, and a timer. Anything else required and the run probably isn't worth the trouble.
  
• Least AI Hits Taken & Pacifist runs: Why isn't there a simple NG Race Only category? The pacifist runs are nearly impossible to do by the way (case in point, The Mad Party).

If you wanted a wide range of categories to choose from, I would have gone with simpler ideas like non-NG any% or NG/non-NG Racing.

-Aile

AileronOwl wrote:

NG Waste Only: This is nearly impossible to do in NFM1 and impossible in NFM2. (In NFM1, wasting in each stage possible with DrM, but not in NFM2, because of The Stretch)

Okay, I'll remove the NFM2 section from the page.

AileronOwl wrote:

NG Least Spacebar Presses any%: This is probably the dumbest speedrunning category I have ever seen. Not being allowed to press spacebar makes the game really slow-paced and boring, which speedrunning is not supposed to be. (hence "speed") Also, almost always in speedrunning, all you need to do a run is a game, a recording software, and a timer. Anything else required and the run probably isn't worth the trouble.

TWELVE
HOURS
The point of the category is to be esoteric and interesting. Yes, it's absurdly boring and annoying to do. Same thing with the Least AI Hits Taken category. It would require an immense amount of skill and patience to do, and the result would probably be amusing. "We do what we must, because we can."

AileronOwl wrote:

Least AI Hits Taken & Pacifist runs: Why isn't there a simple NG Race Only category? The pacifist runs are nearly impossible to do by the way (case in point, The Mad Party).

We had a Race Only category, but we ended up removing it since you race on most stages anyway, and no one seemed interested in running it. If you're willing to submit a run, I can add it back. About the pacifist run thing, see above.

AileronOwl wrote:

If you wanted a wide range of categories to choose from, I would have gone with simpler ideas like non-NG any% or NG/non-NG Racing.

Same as above, no one was interested on doing non-NG races, and the level leaderboard seemed more fit for that sort of thing. This is especially such with all the RNG around the cars that appear in a race after you beat the game, since it could potentially make or break the run.

Please understand that I had to cut and trim all the categories down since Sheppard and SB were basically tearing me a new one for making so many. This is why you don't see Classic NFM2 categories, and no Classic NFM1 categories for anything other than the regular Any%, and no Classic categories for individual levels.

rafa1231518 wrote:

AileronOwl wrote:

NG Least Spacebar Presses any%: This is probably the dumbest speedrunning category I have ever seen. Not being allowed to press spacebar makes the game really slow-paced and boring, which speedrunning is not supposed to be. (hence "speed") Also, almost always in speedrunning, all you need to do a run is a game, a recording software, and a timer. Anything else required and the run probably isn't worth the trouble.

TWELVE
HOURS
The point of the category is to be esoteric and interesting. Yes, it's absurdly boring and annoying to do. Same thing with the Least AI Hits Taken category. It would require an immense amount of skill and patience to do, and the result would probably be amusing. "We do what we must, because we can."

Sure. But you still have to ask yourself if it's worth doing. In the case of the Rolling Rocks video, Pannen himself says the footage is of a TAS.

rafa1231518 wrote:

AileronOwl wrote:

Least AI Hits Taken & Pacifist runs: Why isn't there a simple NG Race Only category? The pacifist runs are nearly impossible to do by the way (case in point, The Mad Party).

We had a Race Only category, but we ended up removing it since you race on most stages anyway, and no one seemed interested in running it. If you're willing to submit a run, I can add it back. About the pacifist run thing, see above.

I'd like to submit a racing run.


Side note, is there any way to play classic NFM1 & 2 without using an outdated version of Java?

[Edit] There's no problem with having a lot of runs, it's just that there's no interest in speedrunning this game.

-Aile

AileronOwl wrote:

[snip]
Sure. But you still have to ask yourself if it's worth doing. In the case of the Rolling Rocks video, Pannen himself says the footage is of a TAS.

I think it's an added challenge to avoid the samey feeling of polishing regular NFM runs over and over again. If you're not a fan of it, you're welcome to shield your eyes from that specific category, but unless you're willing to give actual constructive criticism (other than "I don't like it" and "It doesn't feel good" and "It's too boring") I'm not willing to do much about the category, other than hide it, which I've already done.

AileronOwl wrote:

I'd like to submit a racing run.

Alright, I've added a race only category.

Note regarding your runs: DSMod shouldn't be allowed, since it runs slightly faster than the other clients (This has been stated by Dany himself). This has a menial difference in individual levels, but has a fairly significant difference for full-game runs. I'm not sure who verified your runs, but they should be invalidated.

Edit: Sorry if that last bit came off as insulting, but it's true. If there is still any doubt I can have a look at the values internally and settle the dispute.

Edit 2: The discord link at the main post is invalid since I believe I deleted the server, after no one was running. If there's any interest, I can make a new server, or we can talk in the AIM discord.

rafa1231518 wrote:

AileronOwl wrote:

[snip]
Sure. But you still have to ask yourself if it's worth doing. In the case of the Rolling Rocks video, Pannen himself says the footage is of a TAS.

I think it's an added challenge to avoid the samey feeling of polishing regular NFM runs over and over again. If you're not a fan of it, you're welcome to shield your eyes from that specific category, but unless you're willing to give actual constructive criticism (other than "I don't like it" and "It doesn't feel good" and "It's too boring") I'm not willing to do much about the category, other than hide it, which I've already done.

"I don't like it" and "It doesn't feel good" aren't my problems with this category. I don't like having to download extra software for this category only, and I don't like how slow-paced this game becomes without the spacebar. Speedruns are supposed to be fast, which this category is not. Is it interesting? Sure, it's something different. It's not exciting. I do think this category is pretty boring as far as speedruns are concerned.

also, I don't know what exactly you mean by hiding it, because I can still see it on the website

rafa1231518 wrote:

Note regarding your runs: DSMod shouldn't be allowed, since it runs slightly faster than the other clients (This has been stated by Dany himself). This has a menial difference in individual levels, but has a fairly significant difference for full-game runs. I'm not sure who verified your runs, but they should be invalidated.

Edit: Sorry if that last bit came off as insulting, but it's true. If there is still any doubt I can have a look at the values internally and settle the dispute.

No problem. I have new runs which weren't done with DSaddons that I can upload, if it's that big of an issue. Although none of my runs are within a minute of anyone else's, except for my NFM1 any% run, which wasn't done with DSaddons.

rafa1231518 wrote:

Edit 2: The discord link at the main post is invalid since I believe I deleted the server, after no one was running. If there's any interest, I can make a new server, or we can talk in the AIM discord.

It's a nice idea, but I'm the only one running NFM right now. That, and I don't use Discord too much anyway. So it'd be a pretty empty Discord. kake

[it would be nice if someone else tried speedrunning NFM though]

-Aile

AileronOwl wrote:

"I don't like it" and "It doesn't feel good" aren't my problems with this category. I don't like having to download extra software for this category only, and I don't like how slow-paced this game becomes without the spacebar. Speedruns are supposed to be fast, which this category is not. Is it interesting? Sure, it's something different. It's not exciting. I do think this category is pretty boring as far as speedruns are concerned.

He meant it's hidden as in it's not immediately visible without clicking something first. It is a bit tedious to do, but hell, not a lot of people do runs, and most of us who do are willing to download a split timer anyway, so it's not a big stretch to download one extra little program. Plus if it's not worth it, you can just ignore that category. I think it's quite interesting of a category personally, especially watching how the runner goes about getting power in interesting ways.

Oh, I understand now. Oops.

I think it's interesting too, but like I said, it's not very fun to play myself. I've tried it. Looking back on the discussion, it's a little like arguing over whether a color is pretty or not. It's a matter of opinion.

-Aile

I got a little nostalgic and felt like playing some NFM1, so I recorded a play through. I got the time 15:18.632, which beats the current NFM1 record. I'd say the best strategy is to race only on stages where it's absolutely necessary (Introductory, Grapefruit, Fast & Furious). I think on all the other stages you're better off wasting, since killing 4 other cars doesn't usually take that long, especially when they're retarded AI who find it hard to not kill themselves even without a waster going after them.